#114 - The Foundation Most Amazon Brands Skip

Most Amazon businesses don’t fail because the idea is bad they fail because the foundation is missing. We sit down with Ian Roland Barry from AMZ Expand to talk through the unglamorous work that determines whether an Amazon FBA launch has a real chance: picking the right niche, structuring an offer that can actually compete, and matching your ambitions to the capital required to survive the ramp.

We get specific on the details that quietly break brands. Ian explains why GS1 barcodes and clean GTIN and UPC setup matter, how gray-market codes create a product identity mess, and why relying only on an Amazon FNSKU can limit you when you want to sell in retail or other ecommerce channels. From sourcing and supplier negotiation to logistics, we zoom out to show how early operational choices affect ranking, conversion, and long-term scale.

Then we tackle the uncomfortable truth about growth: in competitive categories like supplements, beauty, and pet, established sellers will spend aggressively on Amazon advertising because they understand lifetime value. If you try to protect short-term margins, you may never reach the review and sales velocity needed to unlock organic placement. Ian shares a clearer way to think about proof of concept, review accumulation, and “feeding the algorithm” before expecting consistent profit.

If you’re building an Amazon brand and want fewer surprises, subscribe, share this with a founder friend, and leave a review with the one part of your launch plan you’re most unsure about.

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Transcript

Why Foundations Matter On Amazon

SPEAKER_00 0:08

You know, there are people that'll have specific areas of, oh, we can help you get a trademark or we can help you do uh your accounting, but there's no one that really prepares you for everything. And so that's why I'm excited to have this episode with you today to chat more about how we can help sellers out there that might not be sellers yet, but are looking to be sellers get into this space effectively and efficiently. So, Ian, a pleasure to have you on.

SPEAKER_01 0:34

Thank you. Thank you for having me. Appreciate you.

SPEAKER_00 0:37

Yeah. I want to get right into it, um, but I first actually want to give you a chance to kind of give us a brief 30-second elevator pitch about your background, how you got into the Amazon e-commerce space, and more about what it is your company does.

SPEAKER_01 0:52

Yeah, absolutely. Um, so Ian, uh, Roland Barry, uh, on behalf of Amazon Expand, AMZ Expand to be specific, and essentially we support um founders all the way from you know startup all the way to those that are doing $70 million on the ecosystem, um, maximize the opportunity. And, you know, the vast majority of that started because um I was you know supporting vendors in the capacity, but I saw that many sellers on the ecosystem just didn't have the proper foundation to grow. Um, and Amazon is not what Amazon used to be over a decade ago when I first got into it, and it has changed into an ecosystem now where no longer is it a success to just be on the ecosystem. Your program and your systems on the platform and off the platform need to be in line. And I find that many, you know, speak to the on the platform things that are in line, which is great, fantastic, beautiful. But in order to see success that's you know um incremental beyond what everyone else is doing, your actual foundational platform needs to be aligned as well. And I find that um specifically when working with founders and startups, um, that they often have either overlooked that and gone further into the development itself without creating the right foundation, or from the beginning, don't even know how to set the right foundation. So it's a it's a passion of mine to be able to serve those in that capacity within, you know, the umbrella that is Ang Expand um with that particular element.

SPEAKER_00 2:24

Why

The Hidden Work Before Launch

SPEAKER_00 2:25

do you think a lot of these, maybe it's new age, maybe it's been happening for a while, but why do you think a lot of these entrepreneurs today are trying to bypass the the foundational work and and pass uh bypass the basics almost and um maybe what is one of the biggest misconceptions that they might have uh about what happens before the listing goes live?

SPEAKER_01 2:48

I think it's not knowing what they don't know, more so than anything else. Um and and what I mean by that is specifically like this element of will make sure that your foundational structure is sound for launch on the Amazon ecosystem. It's just not often talked about, right? It's like, okay, well, um give your it first starts with like product idea or brand, you know, ethos, which what you want to, you know, what you want to go into, what have you. And then it's like, okay, well, we're gonna build this brand, we're gonna build the product. I like this product for whatever reason. Being even done due diligence behind the product, found a gap, found an opportunity, or it's just something that you're like, hey, I like this one, so I'm gonna build it. Um, but what's often not discussed, I found is okay, well, within that frame of whatever it is you select, whatever the niche you choose to go into, the product you choose to select, like, how is your offer structured within that? Like, and what I mean when I say offer for those who may be listening that don't understand that is like your pricing structure, um, structured in terms of how that product can sell on the ecosystem. And also like you and yourself are you situated from a capital perspective to play in the niche that you want to go into. Because I can tell you, like, if you have a product that isn't super, super novel per se, um, and you're in say a very highly competitive niche, let's say supplements or something of that nature, um, the capital that you need to have set aside to be able to be successful in that niche, because you're not necessarily leveraging or winning on having a crazy differentiated product. You're now having to win on brand differentiation and you're not having to win on you know assets that are more the creative elements to have people say, okay, well, I like I want to buy this brand because I like the feel of it, I like the look of it. But that's a capital expense in and of itself. And so I say all these things to say it's that I I think that often people put the cart before the horse in terms of, okay, well, I like this product idea, I like this concept, that's cool, but they're not thinking about the things outside of that just because it's not frequently talked about as um items that are prerequisites.

SPEAKER_00 5:12

Right. Right. And it's it's so interesting, you're right, because we don't deal with that after it's set up, maybe, and that's not really maybe that that accurate to say, but it's not, you're right. People are looking at the the cart before they're worrying about the horse, um, which is very interesting for like a day zero mindset, you know, for something that's that's before you even launch, this is what has to happen. Um, you're not gonna to stick with the horse and cart analogy, you're not gonna pull the cart without a horse. So worrying about the cart is only gonna get you so far.

SPEAKER_01 5:42

Um and I and I think Peter, like, you know, like inevitably though, like within this frame of growing a business and entrepreneurship that we're in, it's like um there's the love of we have to we have to love solving problems is how I like to say it. It's like, you know, uh entrepreneurship, founders, as we get we get paid to solve problems, right? So I don't say this to say that if you haven't done that for endership work, you can't be successful, right? Like, because inevitably I do say this though, that if you, you know, vast majority of sellers over 90% on the Amazon ecosystem that enter in, like brand new, aren't successful, and there's a reason for that. And I believe that foundational is because this isn't structured ahead of time. And so what I more so say is that if you want to enter in with creating an ecosystem where you have less friction from the forefront or less surprises, and it's a little bit more um aligned uh and intentional, you're gonna want to do these things because if you don't do them, then you could find yourself months in saying, Well, why aren't I seeing what I thought was gonna happen from this? Or wow, I I might need I don't have the capital associated with growing this the way that I thought I did, or it's gonna take significantly more time than I thought. And so these are the things you're speaking to to say there's many ways to get towards the path of whatever your success is, but if you want to align it accordingly to allow it to be as fluid as

Product Selection And Capital Reality

SPEAKER_01 7:05

you can, you're gonna want to consider some of these things you're talking about today.

SPEAKER_00 7:09

Yeah, it it's it's an interesting scenario. And I want to get into some of the technical stuff as well, that exactly that what you help with on that end as far as maybe barcodes or um brand registry, all that kind of stuff goes. So, really starting off there, I mean, what's the the I feel like this burns a lot of sellers. I actually um my dad used to work for GS1, so I know a little bit about this area, but talk to me a little bit more about the identity crisis of getting these GTIN codes that people don't either understand or um maybe why getting this wrong is such a fatal flaw for so many brands.

SPEAKER_01 7:43

Absolutely. If you would, I'd almost like to even start before we go to GTINs, um, you know, and go and touch on product product in and of itself. So I think um where I prefer and love to start with is like assuming that we're saying we're starting from scratch. It's more like, okay, what is the you know, niche or what have you that you want to go into and just an identification of what that particular is. If you have that aligned, beautiful. If you don't, then you want to get aligned in some capacity with that. I tend to find there are those sellers or founders who want to enter in and they're just like, I just want something and they don't have like a specific interest. That's okay. But I tend to find that those founders that do have some type of inclination or some type of desire in some niche to go into and aren't just like, well, I just want to make money or you know, or by any means or what have you, um, tend to see better results because they're like bought into the product and wanting to like better that specific product and they do more intentional research and due diligence into that niche or the niche prop the products that are gonna be accumulated rather than the other way around. Now, um that that has its caveats to it because I've seen it the other way around, but I just wanted to speak to that. Um after that's been identified, the that next thing is okay, within that niche, you know, what are gonna what's gonna be the hero skew or the hero skews that we're gonna go and you know go forth with. Thereby we do an element which is a very um built-out AZ structure, which does due diligence on a number of products that can be launched within that particular ecosystem and niche that align with the financial parameters that are available to the founder to the organization. Um, and that's usually shortlisted to start. And then after that shortlist, you know, pick a handful, if not all of them, whatever it may be, and then go into the actual physical development of those particular products, whatever they may be. Um, that includes, you know, the sourcing, that includes the negotiations with the factory, that includes all the product development associated with the actual physical build-out of those products until we're ready to go. Golden samples are there, purchase orders are ready, and we're actually, you know, um ready to ship. Um, even the supply chain aspect of it, excuse me, excuse me, the fulfillment and logistics aspect of it in terms of getting the products here, all of that is within frame and what we do. And then subsequent to that is then the launch actually of that onto that particular ecosystem. Now, going back to your question of the GS1 element of it, um, yeah, I tend to find again, if you're running into issues more often than not, it's because it's when organizations either bought gray area barcodes

GS1 Barcodes And GTIN Pitfalls

SPEAKER_01 10:35

which didn't actually truthfully come from GS1, or you know, they may have just set up their GS run incorrectly, whereby they put one particular company on it, but the company is usually actually running as a different company thereby. You know, there's some disconnect with regards to that um in that capacity. But all of those things in and of itself, um, assuming again that you are um you have the right structure and you have the right alignment within your ecosystem from a GS1 perspective and you're not buying greater skews, please everyone leverage GS1 whenever you can. Um, and I like to also say to sellers too, like if you have a um a vision to expand beyond the Amazon ecosystem, whether it be brick and mortar retail or whatever it may be, um, I still like to invite uh sellers wherever possible to leverage GS1 barcodes instead of just doing F and SKU through the Amazon with their system because it gives you the ability to have that flexibility. One, you might not have to label those items with F and SPU. And for those who don't know what F and SKU is, that's Amazon's version of a barcode. Um, in some instances, you don't have to per se have a GS1 to sell on Amazon. You could just use their barcodes as the identifier um to when it gets scanned in Amazon that will you know allow Amazon to identify it. However, if you do have a barcode, you have the potential, depending on your category, just not have to do FNCU. And alongside of that, you have the ability to, with the same units that you've already paid your packaging for that have your barcode on it, to um sell elsewhere outside of the Amazon ecosystem because you know the vast majority of places, especially if you're chopping like brick and mortar or in-store, are gonna leverage a UPC barcode. Your GS, your uh FN scale is not gonna have any uh you know applicability outside of Amazon. So um want to touch on that one for sure because sometimes I see founders saying, hey, well, I could just do this and not do a GS1. Sure, we'll kill it, but for the cost of what GS1 is realistically, like it's not worth it.

SPEAKER_00 12:37

Yeah, yeah, it makes more sense to just buy them. Uh yeah, just to have them, right? Because they don't expire technically. Um, but yeah. Okay, so walk me through the next step here. We've got the product ready to go. Um, you know, you're doing the negotiations with the suppliers, getting the orders in. We've got ready, they're ready to start on Amazon. What's what's next? What are what are some things, some pitfalls that maybe people, again, that they're not expecting? You know, what are some things that they don't expect to come up in this process that trip them up that you guys can help with?

SPEAKER_01 13:10

I think the biggest thing is actually honestly, and I I kind of consolidated it. So I'm gonna go back in and poke some some some points within there. I think the biggest point of it actually is within that product selection, niche selection decision framework. Because again, I'm gonna go back and use supplements, for example, but there may be categories that are highly competitive in this regard that you know, personal care in and of itself, you know, beauty, things of that nature, um, especially those that have um, you know, goods that have the repeat purchases with the lower uh average order values. Um, for those who don't know, it's just me the price point's cheaper. Um

Why Competitive Niches Burn Cash

SPEAKER_01 13:50

is the you have to also have an understanding of like again where you're financially situated, and also even outside of that, what your goals are from this particular aspect of what you're trying to build organizationally from, whatever it may be, like top-line growth, or if you're trying to focus on profit or some things that future, whatever it may be, because that's gonna play a big role on the products you select and also like the mix you select. What do I mean by that, right? Okay, so again, using supplements as an example, um that is a category that has um fairly high, if you're doing it properly and you're you know, assuming you want to be successful in it, uh repeat purchase rate. And so within that, within that frame, for those that don't know, just to keep it simple, it's like one person buys the product, the game is that they're gonna like the product and they're gonna continue to buy that particular supplement ongoing because it services, you know, whatever it is is gonna have to get to um service. Um when that's the case, you're you're these brands that are already established and successful out there understand like the customer to the point of how much money they're likely going to make from a customer over time. When that's the case, um when you're entering into supplements, you have to understand that you could have a product that let's say it has great margins or what have you, you identified something, you're like, okay, this looks good on the surface, um, and I think I can compete here. You have to also understand that, like, if your product, let's say, isn't super differentiated, when you enter into the market, these people who are or have already established on the ecosystem that you may be competing competing against in the same, you know, uh type of realm with your specific product that you're doing. Let's say you're doing a creatine or what have you, um they have they understand what it is that that customer is going to, like an average customer is going to spend with them over time, and they are willing as a result of that to often um acquire a customer at a cost that for you is not profitable. And honestly, even for them is not profitable. So, what that means is they're willing to spend significantly more on ads to acquire a customer than you are because of the fact that they have the data around that customer. So, what that means is that the capital required to invest into this particular product that looks good on the surface in terms of your margins, in terms of all of that, might actually be a significantly larger uphill battle because the capital required to invest into the actual advertising and the the visibility of your product is significantly higher in the category that you're going into. And so those are things, again, in that product selection, brand selection avenue of things you're going to want to consider and at least have an understanding around prior to that selection, because that plays a major role in how much capital you need from the forefront in order to see the results that you think you're going to see.

SPEAKER_00 17:22

Right. And especially like you said, for these competitive categories like pet, like supplement. We see it on our end a lot too, with brands come in. They say, you know, we're doing, you know, this is post the launch phase, but we know we're doing 10,000-ish a month, but we can't seem to grow. Um, and then we always ask them how much are you how much are you spending on advertising? How much more are you willing to spend? So it's a very interesting comparison that I you think of when you're hearing people at the beginning and at the middle phases still dealing with this issue of are we spending enough? Um and it's a very, I wonder, uh, do you see that on your end as well of you know, countless brands that are doing well, but they're just not spending enough to grow.

SPEAKER_01 18:07

Absolutely. And I think it comes from the avenue of, again, not necessarily under either, either not necessarily understanding the niche or what they're looking for in terms of their um bottom line and their their financial goals from the ecosystem are not aligned with how they're currently structured. So, what I mean by that is they don't want to go more aggressive in terms of making their margins a bit thinner for the next one quarter, two quarters, you know, three quarters whole year, um, because they have specific profit goals that they want to see or sort of, but at the same time, within the ecosystem that they're in, that is required to push your product in order to allow for your product to rank accordingly on the ecosystem, so that in the long run, once your products rank, you can get the organic sales that you want. And so I find it's either a mix between they want something, but they're not, either they're not willing to invest into it or they're unaware of how their lack of investing into it is actually affecting them in the long run. So they're not seeing the forest through the trees, or they just simply aren't aware of how aggressive that category is because they just might not understand the ecosystem, Amazon well enough to understand what levers have to be pulled in order for them to actually see the results that they want.

SPEAKER_00 19:34

It's it's just funny how it's the same problem across, or somewhat the same problem across brands that are doing nothing and brands that are doing tens of thousands of dollars a month, hundreds of thousands of dollars, even, you know, some uh middle-large companies, I think, all face this weird same issue of of scaling where they're not willing to see the forest or the trees is a good analogy. Um But just kind of on that scaling and looking at the planning ahead and focusing on the rest of the year and beyond, how are you guys helping solve that issue point blank? How are you helping them solve the issue of not being able to look past their maybe set profitability goals or it looking

Align Goals Then Reverse Engineer

SPEAKER_00 20:20

even past the first year? You know, like where you're aiming, of course, to make this a profitable business for an untold amount of time. How can you help new sellers and anyone in this position see the forest through the trees?

SPEAKER_01 20:34

Yeah, absolutely. The first thing that we do is we have to align on like what is the goal? Like, what is your why? What are you looking to achieve? And then everything is reverse-engineered from that. Because if you if that if that's not aligned and we don't have a like, you know, you know, a KPI from that perspective in in terms of what is that why, then as things go, um, and you know, perceptions come up as things go, then you're gonna it can lead to emotional decisions and emotional frames, right? So, like once we have an understanding of what it is that you're looking to achieve, and I would again, for those out there who don't have that, I would highly recommend without question that you align on what that is, whether it's a physical number in terms of the top-down revenue, whether it's awareness, whether it's number of customers that um you have on board, whether it's, you know, again, subscribers, whatever it may be, bring it, bring it into your ecosystem, align on that and say, you know, this is what it is. Um, and from that particular frame, then we say, Oh, okay, with that in mind, um what are the what are the if they're launched already, what are the data points we have that currently exist that we can extrapolate a program that says, okay, based on this, we need to put in this to get to that. Um, and if we don't have anything, trying to leverage a, you know, a program that gathers that data accordingly. And to try and, you know, forecast what that might look like, try to find comparables in terms of competitors or closely related items that can help us build out something. But the actual, the actuals that you're going to get from actually investing into the ecosystem, the program, assuming you're starting from fresh, are going to be better than any forecast that you try to get from a competitor because you don't know all of the inputs that they're putting into their program. You're just guessing, you know. Um, you don't know how much off Amazon ads they're investing in. You don't know how many affiliates they have on board. You don't know what they're doing from a PR perspective. So that's very, it's very um you're playing in a in a in a in a in an unlit hallway um whenever you try to, you know, forecast another's program with yours, but it's always, you know, sometimes when you have nothing, it's it's better to have something to to work with, you know, if you're not launched already and don't have any data. Right.

SPEAKER_00 22:57

I always like to ask a future-facing question as well. And so when we're looking at maybe the next 12 to four months, where do you think Amazon is maybe gonna tighten the screws regarding seller requirements? Or where do you think with either with AI or with anything, any other tools, where do you think things are gonna get easier or maybe even more difficult in this process of getting the business started, forming the goal and reverse engineering and everything we've talked about, where do you think things are gonna get easier, and maybe where do you think things are gonna get harder?

SPEAKER_01 23:34

Well, I'll continue to say um I think they play into each other, to be frank with you, uh, in a way, and I'll I'll speak to what I mean by that. So the I think the biggest shift

Amazon’s Next Wave Of Competition

SPEAKER_01 23:45

that I continually noticed within the ecosystem was I mean, there's there's plenty, but I'd say the ones that I find impact smaller startups or or um you know new foundations the most, even honestly those that are you know very um historically entrenched sellers, is um suppliers themselves, like actual factories and those who are the the uh the plugs, uh having their own programs on the Amazon ecosystem and understanding what it takes to be successful in the Amazon ecosystem. And that has resulted in the not just the competition going up significantly, but uh organizations that used to be competitive from a pricing perspective, an offer perspective, not even being able to play ball anymore because often their same manufacturer um is in the ecosystem or manufacturer is similar, saw what they're doing and entered into the ecosystem. And so what I found is that has resulted in brands. If you want to see success, we're gonna have to get a lot more strategic and aligned again with what we're touching on here, being uh sound with regards to their why and creating the elements around that. But I say that to say um creating much more of a branding perspective around what you're doing and focusing a lot more on brand and pulling other levers to be successful. So off of Amazon, like what are you doing? What do you have aligned? Um, what are the things and the core elements that you can do so that when people do get to the Amazon ecosystem, they see your brand or they see your products, they're converting because they already know who you are, they know why you're established, they know why your price points are the way that they are, and they're purchasing because you have provided them with the rationale already to be able to close. Um, no longer um what I say, if you're in a category where it's become that competitive, suppliers are in there, you can, you know, you're not able to beat them on price because they are the price. Um, you've got to you you can't rely on your keywords anymore and even review volume um if you were intentioned entrenched before to be the winner, because um you're where you used to have strengths. Um, previously, if you were beating on price, you no longer do. And if you weren't previously on the ecosystem and you're just starting, you don't have a strength and that capacity there. So you got to focus on the things that you can control, which is how's my brand perceived? How are my creatives? Like, you know, make sure that your image and everything is sound, make sure that they understand you, but also that they're seeing you from a number of different touch points outside of the Amazon ecosystem.

SPEAKER_00 26:30

Mm-hmm. And that might answer my next kind of fun closer question. But if there was a brand listening out there, right, and they've got most of the steps, let's say they've found a supplier and they've got a lot of this background stuff set up, um, but they're looking to, they're not having launched yet. They're about maybe a month out from launch. What's one piece of advice, maybe one takeaway that you could say from everything that we've talked about today? Um, what is one item on the to-do list that they need to double check before the

Proof Of Concept Before Profit

SPEAKER_00 27:05

end of the day after watching this?

SPEAKER_01 27:08

Absolutely. I'm going to assume that this organization or wherever they are did their due diligence and they're very already sound on the category. They know what they're going into, they have their capital. The the thing that I would say without question is be prepared to enter into the Amazon ecosystem with the mindset of showing proof of concept before you focus on trying to turn around and pull a profit from a media. Now, if both can exist at the same time, beautiful. But I say that to say what I mean by proof of concept is I tell all of the brands within here what we want for the first, depending on what the category is, six, eight, twelve months, is review accumulation and feeding Amazon's algorithm. Meaning that I like to structure and set up programs so that the that first time period, whichever we align to, again, depending on how the category is situated and how what what uh product salvage velocity is like, we are feeding Amazon within the financial uh parameters that can make sense for your program or where you're situated as aggressively as possible, so that we can get as many reviews as possible. We can feed Amazon as many unit conversions as possible, because inevitably, once you're able to do that, there becomes a tipping point after you've reached a certain amount of reviews, a certain amount of sell-through, and all these things, and you're ranked accordingly, where you're what you have done from that program and from investing into the ecosystem from the forefront allows you to see success from the organic positioning that you now have to slowly tinker off of that aggressiveness and allow for your ranking to take over so that that so that you can then basically reap those rewards and again, you know, see the um see the love that comes from what you invest in from the forefront. I often find that many get so excited and they haven't launched and they want to see uh, you know, either immediate profits from the forefront or they're like, oh, well, I'm willing to invest stuff into break even. And it's okay, cool. But like when you actually reverse engineer from how your product needs to be situated in the category for the sell through, for the goals that you obtained, and you push as aggressively as possible towards those goals and then ticker back off, then you're creating a different way of attacking this particular beast, which is that product, your pro your uh product within the niche that you selected, and it will be a much more enjoyable process and program for you because it's one where you're after again, you're taking a look at the forest of the trees and not necessarily on um, you know, trying to push for something that might not be within frame of how your niche is uh uh structured on the ecosystem.

SPEAKER_00 29:53

Love it. Great answer. No, it's it's it's been a great discussion. I really appreciate you again doing this. This is, I think, the first of maybe a few episodes where we'll go into a little bit more of the nitty-gritty on on how to actually get this, you know, uh make it from just a side hustle to an actual business that people can enjoy. Like you said, I think that's an important part that we maybe I didn't touch on and ask you about is, you know, some people do this just because they want a business that they can have really. And that's that's not a bad reason to do it, but I think a lot of people do it because they know that they could do they could make a product better than what's already out there and they love the area. And I think that's uh, you know, to get a little uh soppy. I think that's a very important part of any business that you have your your

Final Takeaways And Where To Connect

SPEAKER_00 30:35

heart and your mind are in it. Um and I think you would agree after our discussion.

SPEAKER_01 30:41

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 30:42

Ian, I really appreciate you being a guest. It's been wonderful. Um, I will have your LinkedIn as well as your website linked down below, but um make sure to check out both of those, all of you watching, connect with Ian, learn more about how to really get, again, your passion project into a full-fledged actual Amazon business and then have it exist in the ecosystem. So, Ian, thank you so much for coming on.

SPEAKER_01 31:07

Pleasure. Thank you, Pete.

SPEAKER_00 31:08

Thank you all for watching. I'm your host, Velocity Pete, and we will see you next week.